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Center of Neutral?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:58 pm
by singing101
It seems like the metallic modes have a clear center, with a characteristic sound. I can hear/feel when I've hit the center of curbing and overdrive particularly, but I don't know when I'm in 100% neutral. I can do flageolet, and for some reason jumping back in forth between curbing and flageolet and then trying to do something "in-between" seem to help me get into regular neutral, but I have a hard time telling if I'm centered.

What I notice about being in the center of overdrive and curbing is that it feels easy to support. I've noticed that once it feels like it's more difficult to support, I'm usually in the marginal areas.

In the book, it says that you can work with Ah in neutral with air, and oo in neutral without air...but I have problems with oo...I just end up going to curbing, same thing with ee, I shift it to Ih against my will.

It would seem that the only way I could practice neutral and not be lured into curbing is by finding the center of neutral and maintaining that all the way to A above middle C.


Re: Center of Neutral?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:57 am
by Kaare
Try a different vowel then (you can do them all in Neutral) and experiment with lowering the support value when singing in Neutral.
Maybe you have too high a support value when singing Neutral.
Its easier than you think.

Try to add a bite, turn down the volume to 2,5-3 and add a touch of air.
Imagine that you are in Overdrive at a very low volume on the vowel "EH"/stay.
Add the air (which you can do due to the low volume) and make sure that you at will can turn up the volume to Overdrive at any time without experiencing a break.
Makes sense?

Maybe add a sound link?

Thanx :-)

Re: Center of Neutral?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:01 am
by singing101
So is there a clear "center" to neutral? Or is just the absence of metal? Or is there no center to neutral?

I tried the exercises, they didn't work. I practiced support with my easiest mode, which is curbing (that took the last 3 years).

Then (a few days ago) I applied that to neutral, and it was easier, and I finally knew what I did. I thought singing was supposed to be easy? Why did it take this long to learn how to support?

Re: Center of Neutral?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:33 pm
by AnjaBybjerg
Yes there is a center in Neutral ias in the other modes.

I have been going to CVI for Four years and I still have problems with support sometimes, when I have solved it in one song, it appears again in another. We change all the time, and sometimes what I was able to do yesterday, I can't do today, but with practise it will get better and better

Re: Center of Neutral?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:48 pm
by Kaare
Hi again :-)

Singing in general should feel "easy" in the sense, that it feels good and that one is using the least amount of energy possible to sing the note.
But "least" doesn´t necessarily mean "little".

It might not feel "easy" to sing an advanced technical and musical phrase, but if we, at all times, can break down a phrase into the specific, physiological settings that produces it, we stand a good chance of making it "easy/easier" to sing the phrase/note.

If something doesn´t feel good/feels unstable or is proportionally difficult to sing, we have to look to the technique and make changes in our approach.
Specifically in the finetuning of the laryngeal gestures v. closed phase of cords v. air pressure etc.

It should, in a perfect world, always be possible to separate the various, technical elements of a difficult phrase (for ex.) and practice isolated on the specific technical issue(s) that causes problems for us when singing the very phrase.

So "easy" in the sense, that if say.. a high note within the phrase is tough, it´s possible for the singer to concentrate all attention to the specific note, find the right position for it (the EASIEST way, perfect "spot"/sensation, the center) to sing the note, practice it again & again (muscle memory), and ultimately put it back into the phrase.

But not "easy" in the sense that actual singing (practicing, "live"-singing, amplified/studio singing etc.) shouldn´t cost the singer something in energy and endurance.
I, for one, am just as soaked as the drummer after a late night gig.
In my opinion, a singer has to be ready to do this work.

For Neutral pick a good Neutral vowel, follow the rules of the mode and sing a single note.
Does it feel good?
Do you like the sound?
Does it feels stable?
Can you prolong it/shorten it at will?
Does it feel "easy" or can you position it in a way (lets say lose jaw or bite+twang etc. etc.) that makes you able to sing the note in an even easier manner?
If it´s easy, repeat it into the muscle memory, then sing more notes and gradually get more & more music into the singing still whilst following the rules.

So Neutral has a center like the other modes, but also more possibilities in terms of the "likes" that can sound and "feel" like a different mode/sensation.
The sound though, still hasnt got any "metal" in it, meaning that it´s still a Neutral note though the laryngeal setting in the vocal tract have altered slightly compared to a standard Neutral note that doesn´t resemble the metal sound.
And on top of that, there´s the Flageolet that singers can mistake for their Neutral.

You can read about this in the book and/or check out the research website: ... /research/

I think you should, if possible, book a session with a CVT coach.
I think that would answer your questions in a way that would enable you to move in your singing.

Makes sense?

Best regards