Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

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Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby singing101 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:26 am

Can a CVT teacher perform loud, classical-sounding Overdrive in the low part of the voice and then turn around and do really high Mariah Carey stuff and then growl out a death metal song?

It would seem like it would take quite a while, like several decades maybe, before I could ever see myself being able to do most of the stuff presented in the CVT book. So I just wonder what teachers are expected to be able to demonstrate when they get their certification? It's hard to imagine doing everything in the CVT book in three years!
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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby eggplantbren » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:43 am

The short answer is yes. They may not be as good as someone who uses a particular style a lot, but they can definitely do all of the techniques. There are various things I can't do, but it's not because it takes decades, it's because I haven't worked on them properly.
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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby Kaare » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:40 am

Yes! To graduate you have to be able to produce all sounds.
But...me (being a dude and all...) might have slight problems (to say the least) when it comes to singing "Queen of the night" in the original pitch for ex...But showing the sound and explaining how to get there is vital and a must.

Some are more specialized in certain genres, but basically yes...as a CVT coach you have to be able to teach all sounds, which is why you need to be able to produce them too...


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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby eggplantbren » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:05 pm

This got me wondering. Are there people who do the CVT education who find certain things very hard to achieve and take a long time? For example, maybe someone was good at a lot of things but it took them 2 years to figure out rattle. Or if you're in CVI with so many good teachers around is it usually really fast to learn each thing? I know that's the ideal if you're working correctly but humans are strange and sometimes it's not so easy.
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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby singing101 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:20 pm

I'm curious about this as well.
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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby Kaare » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:56 am

No, as we are built slightly differently and have different cultural upbringing, different languages, different vowels, different temper, there will always be something that comes easier to me than my neighbour, or the other way around.

If Rattle is difficult, but not the other effects, I have to practice Rattle and figure out how that works for me.
CVI teachers also have technical issues and singing is an ongoing thing through life, so well...it never gets boring :-)

Some teachers are, as singers, specialized in certain categories which again means, that (a) certain sound(s) naturally will come easier to people that are working with/and is interested in that specific sound.

So...CVI/CVT teachers are just a human as everybody else.
They have just chosen to educate themselves in the singing area and to work with it as a profession.

Thanx :-)
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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby singing101 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:48 pm

I think it would be very difficult for me to teach someone neutral on high pitches, since I'm struggling with it. So if a CVT Teacher is still struggling with, say, neutral in the high part of the voice at the end of their training, what do they do about it?

How do you set your standards for teachers when skill levels vary tremendously between modes, effects, etc?
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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby Kaare » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:58 pm

A CVT teacher can do all sounds.
For some certain sounds come easier, for others it requires hard work.
When a singer attends the 3 year course he/she will work not only on pedagogical approaches in regards to teaching singing, but also on his/her own vocal abilities.
This is hard work as there always will be sounds that are less familiar to the voice.
So if a teacher is struggling with Neutral for ex. he/she (& the teachers around) will know that this is a place the singer/teacher has to focus on.
It always works out :-)

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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby singing101 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:13 am

Neutral in what octaves?

Is there a "standard range" that you go by? So each teacher has to be able to do "X" amount of octaves? Or just all sounds in whatever range is easiest for them?

I'm trying to reconcile the drastic differences between the classical ranges (bass, tenor, alto, soprano) and CVT which doesn't really say exactly what range you're "supposed" to have...except that high notes can possibly be reached by lower voices? I'm not clear on this. Are you saying that a Basso Profondo (who, from what I would label according to CVT terminology, is generally expected to sing in metallic modes in the low/very low part of the voice at fairly loud to very loud volumes with a classical sound color) can turn around and sing, according to CVT terminology, "very soft volumes in neutral in the high and very high part of the voice without breaking into flageolet with a classical sound color" (in other words, lyric tenor)? Is that possibility the exception, or the rule, or the standard for all teachers?

Do you ever say to a teacher "no, you can't do "X" octaves, with "X" amount of sounds, with "X" effects, so therefore you must stay at CVI until you can do this?" Or is there a pre-defined standard that everyone can meet?

I'm way too poor right now to even think I could move my life to Denmark and make this happen, but If something happens that I can afford to move to another continent and country to take the CVT training, these are questions I would have, so I figure it would be good to know!

One more somewhat related question:


Catherine Sadolin mentioned that there are TERRIBLE singers that manage to have great careers in singing...one would imagine, then, that people who go to CVI for training are going to be at very different skill levels. How do you handle that?
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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby AnjaBybjerg » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:26 pm

I just finished the 3 year course this summer.

We have different tests where we have to demonstrate different sounds in the different parts of the voice, from very low to very high - the definition of the different parts of the voice are in the book.

About the effects we only have to demonstrate the effect in a phrase. I remember having trouble with creaking and had to work a lot on that, but at the school we are in good hands and will be told what to work on and given tricks to solve them. There are a lot of masterclasses where you can work on your trouble areas and see others working as well. It is not impossible to learn it all, it just takes times and a lot of practise and you will get there.
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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby Kaare » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:55 am

Hi again.

Nobody at CVI is measured in octaves - its not about range at all but about the singer/singing teacher understanding the anatomical and educational processes of working with the voice.
When understanding this, one can continuously through life solve other´s, as well as one´s own, vocal issues.
In the teachers personal vocal training they work on vocal abilities like everybody else and are told to focus on their "weaker" areas, but theres no "octave-standard" as this surely wouldn´t result in better teachers.

But a certain skill level as a singer and/or as a vocal coach is required to attend the course.
This will be assessed in connection with signing up for the course.

About the 3 year singer/singing teacher course:
You don´t have to move here, but "simply" attend 6 courses a year for 3 years :-)
Admin. at CVI is very flexible and try to make travellers from far away receive 2 seminars in a row, meaning that these individuals only travel 3 times a year instead of 6.

"Terrible" singers in the sense that their technique is questionable but still they manage to have healthy careers.


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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby eggplantbren » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:58 am

"Nobody at CVI is measured in octaves - its not about range at all but about the singer/singing teacher understanding the anatomical and educational processes of working with the voice."

There are heaps of male singers who never learn how to sing above F4 without flageolet. Presumably all male CVT teachers can do this.
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Re: Can CVT Teachers do everything in the book?

Postby Kaare » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:48 am

"There are heaps of male singers who never learn how to sing above F4 without flageolet. Presumably all male CVT teachers can do this."

I would say definitely yes to that one.
All male CVT teachers can sing f4 without the flageolet.
If you turn up your volume with more than 2 (on a volume scale from 1-10) you are not in flageolet...
It might feel like there´s no difference sensation wise, but we cant feel what is going on anatomically in the throat.
The flageolet is there for acoustic reasons and below the high C (especially at middle and lower pitches) it seems that its only present at very low volumes.
For some its very confusing as the sensation and sound of Neutral is very similar to that of the flageolet, BUT there is a difference and we have to adjust our sensation or experience of the sound we are producing to what actually happens anatomically.

So sing a f4 with very little volume, like a mouse that doesnt want to get eaten by the house cat, would sing it = Flageolet.
Now sing it slightly louder = Neutral.

Hope it makes sense.

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